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Donald Trump may be avoiding his responsibilities as the president-elect, but he’s happily continuing with his role in producing reality television, and Kellyanne Conway has no problem with that.

On Friday’s episode of CNN’s New Day, Conway made an appearance to defend Trump’s decision to work multiple jobs, telling host Alisyn Camerota, “Presidents have a right to do things in their spare time.”

She adds, “He’s a very transparent guy. Everyone can see what he’s doing, and the fact is that he is conferring with all types of experts who tell him what he can do and not do as President of the United States.” Conway insists that he is only “considering” staying on and will only take on producing responsibilities with permission, because if there’s one thing Trump loves it’s being told what to do.

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When Camerota presses her, stating, “I’m not saying that it’s not allowed, but every hour he devotes to Celebrity Apprentice is an hour he’s not devoting to ‘fill in the blank,’ jobs, national security, whatever.”

Conway responds, “Well, okay, but were we so concerned about the hours and hours and hours spent on the golf course of the current president? I mean presidents have a right to do things in their spare time, in their leisure time, nobody objects to that.”

Camerota interrupts to remind Conway that many people objected to Obama’s golf games, including her, and asks if Trump will be playing golf in addition to running a TV show and the country (you bet your ass he will). Conway answers, “Well, maybe he will be. It certainly seems like there is a lot of time to do that based on recent precedent while you’re President of the United States. But the point is the same. Whether it’s President Obama or President Donald Trump, the idea that these men are going to be all work and nothing else all the time is just unrealistic because it’s never happened in our lifetimes.”

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“It’s never happened in our lifetimes,” is the phrase you can plug in after almost every argument made about Trump.